First Draft Talents: Combat Talents from FantasyCraft

These talents are derived directly from FantasyCraft feat trees.

FantasyCraft makes heavy use of some mechanisms that I have not decided to incorporate in Echelon yet. I will translate as I can, but will not at this time invest a lot of time in them.

The talents in this document include some annotations to make them a little more clear, and possibly identify some changes I would make in polishing them for later use.

Echelon FantasyCraft Talents Draft

Echelon FantasyCraft Talents Draft, click to download PDF

9 Comments to "First Draft Talents: Combat Talents from FantasyCraft"

  1. David Lamb's Gravatar David Lamb
    November 10, 2012 - 6:03 pm | Permalink

    There’s a lot to think about in there, so I’m mildly embarassed that my first comment is just about formatting. When I read the .pdf on a few pages one of the yellow comment boxes sits in the middle of the page instead of along the edge. For example, page 7 the “hurl” comment blocks part of the text; same on page 11 with “Guard”

  2. David Lamb's Gravatar David Lamb
    November 11, 2012 - 6:13 am | Permalink

    I’ve had slightly longer to think about these combat talents. I have the same slight sense of unease about some of them that I have had with other talent chains I’ve seen since you started echelon.

    I certainly buy into the quote at the beginning, that you want the difficulty in designing a character to be making it hard to choose between different sorts of awesome. So I have some general question/comments about judging awesomeness:

    Some (all?) of these are based on interesting feat chains from FantasyCraft. I’ve never seen them in play so I can’t comment from experience, just theoretical concerns. But in general 3e feats are weaker, sometimes significantly weaker, than class abilities. And many class abilities are weaker than one more level of spellcasting. That doesn’t matter so much when you’re gaining feats in parallel with gaining class levels, but now in Echelon each tier of a “spearcaster awesomeness” chain has to be as desirable as whatever “class feature awesomeness” they could have got instead. I presume most combat feats will be on top of stuff like Martial Talent Basic and Advanced at each tier (and furthermore that those two may need to be a bit more awesome than +1 to hit). Do the weapon-specific talents stack up enough to be worth half of the “non-mainstream” talents in each tier? Maybe; I just don’t know yet. I *like* these more interesting forms of weapons specialization — more interesting weapon-specific stuff to actually do.

    Does the epic level spearcaster get to imitate Cucullin’s spear-riding? or the hammer specialist Thor’s flying (the Stan Lee version — throws the thing and catches it to get hauled along with it).

  3. David Lamb's Gravatar David Lamb
    November 12, 2012 - 10:29 am | Permalink

    Regarding Cucullin and Thor — if the (or rather “a”) magic system more or less matches D&D at first, general-purpose Fly becomes a 4th level spell (+1 lvl from D&D) available roughly 7 levels above the entry to Expert, which means it’s high-end Heroic level. Does that put spear-riding and hammer-flying at the same tier? or pushed up a bit to low Master? It shouldn’t have to go above the next tier, Champion.

    Master seems about right for Cucullin if that’s where Herakles fits. Marvel’s version of Thor is different because of immortality and at-will lightning control, but maybe his hammer power is at a much lower tier than he is personally. “returning” is showing up in some of the martial Echelon talents at heroic; I forget what else the hammer can do besides moby damage.

    Mythic Thor — well, there’s the whole bit about controlling thunder and lightning everywhere around the world rather than in just one spot. Plus one-shotting Jormugandr at Ragnarok; should have worked on his Resist Poison, though.

    This Echelon stuff is making me really seriously rethink “mundane” class power levels.

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